I've always known that my value system and society's value system seem to clash on just about every point. In a world that seems to be screaming at me to be a certain way, it's the whispers that I choose to follow, and sometimes the whispers are so quiet that it can be easy to miss the message. In our media saturated life, this book is most certainly a little, tiny, whisper, but carries a message that is so important...one that we as women can't forget. Modesty does matter! I have so many thoughts on this subject and wish that I could be face-to-face with you to discuss them. I would love to hear what you have to say because life experiences teach us so much more than books ever do. I know the messages that Elder Holland and Sister Tanner gave are ones we've heard before, but there were a few quotes I appreciated:Elder Holland: "A woman's abiding trust in God and unfailing devotion to things of the Spirit have always been an anchor when the wind and the waves of life were fiercest." -I like this quote because I truly believe that a woman who is virtuous and modest in manner and dress...respectful of herself really, has the ability to change a man's heart and inspire him to be better. So much of the behaviors I see in young and even older women alike, is that they allow the men in their lives to manipulate them. Some, it seems, have no limits. I like what Dr. Laura says to callers who live in "sin"..."Why would he buy the cow if he gets the milk for free?" You have to laugh, but then the reality is really no laughing matter.
"Choose your clothing the way you would choose your friends...Good freinds would never embarass you, demean you, or exploit you. Neither should your clothing." Sister Tanner adds: "Modesty is more than a matter of avoiding revealing attire. It describes not only the altitude of hemlines and necklines but the attitude of our hearts. The word modesty means 'measured.' It is related to moderate. it implies 'decency, and propriety...in thought, language, dress, and behavior.' -Let's be honest here...what you wear dictates the way you act and gives off an impression wether you like or not. What do you want people to think when they walk behind you and see the word "Juicy" plastered over your behind? Or how about "Sexy" brandished over your chest? What's worse, is that I've seen 4 year olds in garb like that...scary.
I'll leave you with one last thought, and this one actually comes from "Girls Gone Mild".... "The greatness of the daughter of the king is on the inside" (Psalms 45:14). Only the high priest could enter the Holy of Holies, and only on Yom Kippur. The holiest of all Jewish prayers is said in a whisper. Hanna, the mother of Samuel prayed for a child by barely moving her lips. Initially, Eli the high priest thought she was drunk, but he later realized she was onto something. From then on, the Jews mouthed their most important prayers quietly. The most significant moments are always hidden." -There's not much that's sacred anymore which doesn't leave a whole lot to look forward too. How grateful I am for inspired council and women like you and me that strive to protect and teach all that is "virtuous, lovely, of good report, or praiseworthy"!
17 comments:
I still haven't gotten a hold of this book, but did make it through half of "Girls Gone Mild." Although the delivery was hard to swallow, I do appreciate the subject and feel grateful to have always had modesty as an option (of course, in the Church it is a commandment, too). It was sad to read of girls who never really thought of being modest and chaste as something they could choose to be. I'm looking forward to reading this book by Elder Holland and Sister Tanner soon.
I was really grateful this book was picked. I was able to get a hold of it quickly and it is one I will be keeping for a long time. I remember when these two conference talks were given and I remember how much I loved them.
In fact, for those of you who cannot get a hold of the book, it is actually two conference talks put into a book. Here are the links of you are interested:
Elder Holland's talk: http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=b99c78de9441c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
Sister Tanner's talk: http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=6c5b78de9441c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
Except for the biographies on each of these amazing people, that is the entire book. Hope it helps.
Anyway, I really appreciated what these two had to say about modesty and about what is important as far as physical beauty. I recently read a very heated, and lengthy, debate about modesty. It was among a group of LDS women and it actually just made me sad. Because there was so much argument about what was acceptable and how to dress modest you could also dress sexy, even show some cleveage, etc., etc. and I guess it was just sad to me that there had to be an argument. And without the intent to start an argument here, I think that deep down we all know what is right and what is not. And being beautiful and dressed well, and especially being modest, will always be a wonderful thing. And we don't even have to argue about if how we are dressing is right or wrong, nor do we have to worry about if how others are dressed is right or wrong, because we know. And we only have to be accountable to our selves and our God.
I love this quote from Elder Holland, "Every young woman is a child of destiny and every adult woman a powerful force for good." I cannot think of a more wonderful blessing. And I would hate to think that the way I was dressed, or the way I taught my daughter to dress, would ever take away from this promise.
Thanks for the pick Nicole! It was a great reminder to me in all of the choices I make.
I whole heartedly agree! It was a great read for me, something that I needed to hear to reaffirm my convictions on the subject. How sad that some LDS women choose to make things more complicated by saying it's okay to be sexy! Sure it is in the privacy of your own relationship, in your own bedroom. Not at the grocery store, the library, the neighborhood BBQ or for heaven's sake Church! Of course our husbands want to look at us and feel a physical connection and chemistry, but let's keep those things personal and private, that is the very thing that makes them so important. And the lack of propriety is the very thing that gives women so many self esteem issues, if I can see it, I'll probably be comparing it whether I want to or not. I love Nicole's quote about the greatness of the daughter of the king, which is really what I gleaned the most of from this book. My insides are what I should really be worrying about. I want to comb my hair perfectly, spray perfume and learn how to keep my lipstick fresh, but I MUST remember my worth on the inside, and I MUST develop those qualities so that I have more to give the world than my cleavage and my legs, and therefore I give myself more of what God gave me, the gifts that make me, me.
Wonderful insights already stated. I would like to add another thought I had while rereading these talks.
As I read, I was reminded that we really are unique and beautiful women who have the knowledge that we are daughters of a king - a Heavenly Father who knows each of our hearts whether honest or not so honest when it comes to modesty. I was so grateful and really needed a little reminder that I am someone special and I should act accordingly.
I am often discouraged by how many women in my ward wear really low cut dresses or blouses where their cleveage shows on purpose. I can only imagine how hard that is for some of the men. I have thought about saying something to the women in a friendly confident manner. But then again, the Lord will judge their hearts and actions, and it's really not up to me to step in, although I really would like to. I know I have many faults, and therefore should just worry about myself.
Thanks for the book pick. It was an excellent quick read and reminder of who we are and what we stand for.
I just read a little something on this modesty website for young women. It's all about finding modest yet fashionable clothes. I think it is jenclothing.com
Anyway a young woman had written in about how she just wanted to wear a tank top and how men really aren't that attracted to shoulders so why is it a big deal? and I thought, you know what, bless their hearts, men find women wearing a tent to be attractive! That's not the point. Of course we can't wander around in tents and mumu's to stave off male attention. We just have to send men the message that Yep, we are attractive, but I respect myself enough to be modest and so should you buster!
Wow! Thanks for your insights and thoughts! I think that there is a lot to talk about on this subject and I agree with everyones comments so far, especially about the whole "sexy" thing. Who wants to have sister Babelicious at their BBQ? Not me!! Thanks Linn for giving links to the talks, and thanks Mags for the reference to jenclothing.com! I also wanted to add that a woman from Utah named Denise Richards interviewed girls from all over the country on this subject and made it into a documentary film entitled "A Modest Revoultion". I know you can get it from Seagull Books and am pretty sure you can order it from Deseret Book as well. I just barely heard about it so haven't seen it yet, but if any of you have seen it, what did you think?
May I rock the boat a bit? I think in our quest to be modest, we discourage individuality. And I think that's terribly sad, sometimes worse than an immodest blouse. I like looking nice and hip and attractive. I like being a Mormon woman. And I think there are many many ways to be a righteous modest woman and a tent-dress never needs to be involved. I don't like being told by other women what is ok to wear to a barbecue. I think there is and should be a nuanced definition of modesty so as to firmly remain open minded, fair, and moderate (moderation in all things) in our quest for righteousness. And I will never take responsibility for a man's sexual reaction to my clothing choices. Because that kind of culpability leads to cultural choices like burkas and enforced modesty. No thanks. Even good reasoning can sometimes go too far ladies.
Wow, that is super surprising to me. I have never had a church leader or anyone from the church tell me specifically what to wear. I have never had anyone tell me that I could not be an individual or dress in my own style. And I have actually never had anyone tell me I that I have to dress modestly. The commandment is in place and it is my choice. And I am so happy to do it. Because I have never felt forced or that options were so limited that I had to wear a tent. And if someone wants to wear a tent-dress, then I would chalk that up to their right to be an individual.
Instead it honestly makes me happy because I know that I can still dress modestly, while dressing beautifully and having my own style. I guess I am just confused at how modesty takes away from individuality? Because I absolutely think you can be hip and attractive while still being modest. Believe me, I know many women who do it and I strive for it constantly. And we don’t have to take responsibility for the thoughts of others in order to cause them. And it is incredibly important to me that I am only trying to cause those thoughts in my husband. Because he means everything to me. And that intimacy is only between he and I.
I too like being hip and fashionable! I just think hip and fashionable shouldn't equal sexy and immodest. My whole point about the tent dress is exactly as you stated nomad! We shouldn't worry about mens reactions because the poor dears are attracted to women whether we are covered up or not. As for individuality, I think the biggest lack there of can be found in such constraints as the uber selective fashion industry, although I admit to adoring and watching Project Runway every season.
And thank-you for "rocking the boat" it makes this very interesting! But I do have to disagree, I find the seasonal constraints of styles and even body type way more conforming than the length of my hem!
And if I should happen to meet someone scantily clad at the store or library, I would hope I would treat them with kindness and respect because maturity and christ-like love should supercede my own insecurities! I have a friend who posted a fabulous story on this and here is the link: http://storyohana.blogspot.com/2008/06/eh-small-kine-waves-on-da-south-bra.html
good points ladies. I don't think the religion discourages individuality (in fact, the opposite!), but I do think the culture sometimes does. And the lovely thing about culture is that it is not black and white, no need to argue in polemics when talking about culture. My impression of the culture of modesty (which I think has partly been formed as a reaction against the over-sexualization of women and girls) is that sometimes it's just that...a reaction. And any reaction can go too far. Do I think Mormon women have over-emphasized modesty therefore contributing to the over-sexualization of women? Yes. Do I think it was with negative intent? No. Can modesty be taken too far? YES. Can modesty be taken too lightly? Yes. In my opinion, the happy medium is an individualized one.
Thanks Everyone! It was great to discuss this and I appreciate the chance to really think about my opinions on the topic.
Thanks for the discussion, everyone. I guess I better post, too, since I did read the book. I really enjoyed both the talks. I have to side with the conservative folks on this one. It truly scares me to see the direction society is taking when it comes to physical appearance (extreme makeovers, etc.) I don't believe it's physically or emotionally healthy for anyone to be striving for external perfection (according to the world.) I think modesty in dress is increasingly rare. I worry that when my daughter is in school, there will not be many modest options in the stores to buy. But, I hope the small group of people who do believe in dressing and acting modestly will stand firm. We should give people the opportunity the opportunity to get to know who we are inside without the distraction of an immodest exterior.
It has been interesting to sit back and read the comments. Both of these talks are favorites of mine and I have only one thing to add to what has already been said. When deciding what to wear, wether it be to church, to your child's school to volunteer, or to a neighborhood barbeque, always dress so that if you were to run in to our Savior there, you would not be embarrassed by what you are wearing. As the mother of an (almost) 13 year old boy, I want to add to the comment about being responsible for men's reaction's to our dress. I don't want to offend, and I don't mean to imply that we should take responsibility for how a man reacts to our dress, I believe it is our responsibility to dress as though our bodies are sacred, holy temples. If we are honest with ourselves, what is the reason to even wear a plunging neck line or a short skirt? To show off our cleavage or great legs? Who are we showing our cleavage and legs to and why do we care if they notice? Is it to elicit a response? We can look fashionable and still be modest. OK so I guess I had more than one thing to add. :)
I think this book wins for the MOST COMMENTS EVER on Bookworms! Thank you, everyone, for your input. It really is so much more fun to read when you have someone to talk about it with. Happy Reading!
Hey guys...I wrote a reaction to our discussion here (one without the sassy comments or the illogical arguments, hopefully) at Segullah. Here's the link if you're interested in reading/commenting:
http://segullah.org/small-epiphanies/the-modesty-war/
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