Tuesday, April 25, 2006

"Till We Have Faces" Discussion Questions

1. What do you think are some possible morals of the story?

2. How did you feel/what did you think when you got to the end of Part 1?

3. What does it mean to have a "face"?

4. When did Orual find her "face", and why didn't she have one before?

5. How did Psyche and Orual differ in their attitudes and beliefs towards God?

6. How in the end did Orual "become Psyche"?

7. My first time reading this I thought Psyche's character was going to be a Christ-figure, but it turns out that the comparison doesn't hold the whole way through. However, she is, like Lewis mentions below, Christ-like. How do you explain her thoughts since her youth about the wonderful god in his mansion on the mountain? And what can we learn from Psyche?

8. What did Orual learn about love and about herself? (I think she had several learning experiences even before her visions in later life)

The following is C. S. Lewis's account of the meaning of Till We Have Faces (taken from letter to Clyde Kilby, February 10, 1957; in LL, 273-74).
"An author doesn't necessarily understand the meaning of his own story better than anyone else, so I give my account of Till we have Faces simply for what it is worth. The 'levels' I am conscious of are these:
A work of (supposed) historical imagination. A guess of what it might have been like in a little barbarous state on the borders of the Hellenistic world of Greek culture, just beginning to affect it. Hence the change from the old priest (of a very normal fertility mother-goddess) to Arnom; Stoic allegorizations of the myths standing to the original cult rather as Modernism to Christianity (but this is a parallel, not an allegory). Much that you take as allegory was intended solely as realisitic detail. The wagon men are nomads from the steppes. The children made mud pies not for symbolic purposes but because children do. The Pillar Room is simply a room. The Fox is such an educated Greek slave as you might find at a barbarous courst--and so on.
Psyche is an instance of the anima naturaliter Christiana making the best of the Pagan religion she is brought up in and thus being guided (but always 'under the cloud', always in terms of her own imaginations or that of her people) towards the true God. She is in some ways like Christ because every good man or woman is like Christ. What else could they be like? But of course my interest is primarily Orual.
Orual is (not a symbol) but an instance, a 'case' of human affection in its natural condition, true, tender, suffering, but in the long run tyrannically possessive and ready to turn to hatred when the beloved ceases to be its possession. What such love particularly cannot stand is to see the beloved passing into a sphere where it cannot follow. All this I hoped would stand as a mere story in its own right. But-- Of course I had always in mind its close parallel to what is probably happening at this moment in at least five families in your home town. Someone becomes a Christian, or in a family nominally Christian already, does something like becoming a missionary or entering a religious order. The others suffer a sense of outrage. What they love is being taken from them. The boy must be mad. And the conceit of him! Or: is there something in it after all? Let's hope it is only a phase! If only he had listened to his natural advisers. Oh come back, come back, be sensible, be the dear son we used to know! Now I, as a Christian, have a good deal of sympathy with those jealous, suffering, puzzled people (for they do suffer, and out of their suffering much of the bitterness against religion arises). I believe the thing is common. There is very nearly a touch of it in Luke II. 38, 'Son, why hast thou so dealt with us?' And is the reply easy for a loving heart to bear?"

7 comments:

Reluctant Nomad said...

Emily,

I'm still reading....I like it so far. I will respond when I finish!

Linn said...

Okay all, I am embarrassed to write what I am going to write, but didn’t want Emily to think that I did not read her book suggestion—as my cute sister-in-law and friend, I would definitely read anything she recommends.

Here goes—I finished the book and I don’t think I really get it. (The speed at which I read it combined with our crazy life right now could both contribute, but ultimately, I will take the blame.) I think this is a book that I will have to read more than once to understand it—but I think that says more about me than the book. :) I was glad to read Emily’s take on the book and will enjoy the rest of you who also have a great literary understanding—smarty pants that you all are!

I had a hard time getting into the first few pages, but after that I had a hard time putting it down. I kept thinking something happy had to happen soon. :) No really, I just wanted to write and say that I plan to work on understanding it more, that I think my brain it a tad smarter after reading something that actually challenged it, and that I am really glad to have read it. Thanks Emily!

Reluctant Nomad said...

still reading....almost done.

Adri said...

First of all, thank you, Emily, for making me stretch with this one! It is always good to read something that takes a little thinking along the way.

Secondly, I'm like Linn in that I'm not sure I really "get" it all, either. I'm still in the "thinking on it" stage, since I just finished it last night (I'm slow!) and maybe more will come to me later. For what it's worth, here's my attempt at some of the questions. Emily....I'd love more commentary from you about these questions, if you have time. I'm sure you've been able to really think them over.

1. I think the biggest conclusion I made from this book (maybe not quite a moral...) is that it is so important to have a guide. Orual was continually confused. She didn't know who's opinion to trust in religious matters: that of the Fox or Bardia. I think that everyone can be a little like that; easily dissuaded by differing "logical" ideas. For each person, it is important to have themselves grounded in a constant (the Holy Ghost) to whom they can turn for answers. That being said, I'm still not sure who would have played this role for Orual or who was trustworthy in her situation. Any ideas?

2. At the end of part 1, I felt like I still had a grasp as to what was going on. I was completely lost after that, which is unfortunate, since I'm pretty sure that's where the answers were (after she finished part 1 with "no answers"). Help!!!!

6. I think this is the only "symbolic" part I actually picked up on while reading. Orual was "cursed" to become Psyche, in that she would eventually come to understand Psyche and her point of view. In the end, when she had the vision (led by the Fox), she was finally able to understand how things were from the perspective of Psyche and how her own actions looked from the outsider looking in. The scriptures command us to become like Jesus Christ, which, I think, means that we should come to understand Him so well that we will think as He thinks, act as He would act, and eventually become as He is.

I'm interested to hear more about what people thought. It is a "thinkers" book....I'll have to keep thinking! :)

Thanks!

Reluctant Nomad said...

1. What do you think are some possible morals of the story?

I think one of the possible morals of the story is that "judgement" is less an event of damnation and salvation than an event of illumination. And I think that is applicable to our lives because it discounts what we have done (good or bad) and emphasizes what we have become. I think the book is trying to tell us that perfection is indeed a process and we suffer what is needed in order for us to go through that process.

2. How did you feel/what did you think when you got to the end of Part 1?

The most overwhelming feeling I experienced at the end of Part I was empathy. Maybe some of you haven't levied charges against "the gods" but in having done so, I understood Orual's anger, pain, and most of all confusion. It seems that Part II is the dispersion of her confusion as to who is at fault for the pain in her life and in the lives of those she has influenced.

3.What does it mean to have a "face"?

I think it means to be fully aware of oneself, of the role that the gods play in one's life, and of the powerful influence we have on others.

4. When did Orual find her "face", and why didn't she have one before?

I'll let someone else address this.
5. How did Psyche and Orual differ in their attitudes and beliefs towards God?

Psyche seems to trust the gods' rule and seems not to fear the path that they lead her on. Orual seems to trust her own opinion above anyone else's.

6. How in the end did Orual "become Psyche"?

I'm not sure. It seems to me like the revelation that Psyche followed Orual's path, trudged through her adversities, and did so with a completely different attitude was revelatory for Orual. And in that way, she realized that one can live life differently. One can face obstacles with a different perspective and this makes the obstacles therefore, easier or changed in some way.
7. ????? Emily...help me with this one.
8. I'll let someone else stab at this one.

In summary, I loved the character of Orual. I think she reflected so many of us. She saw glimpses of eternity, of truth. She used her own powers of reasoning to make sense or discount them. She made judgements about Redival, about Psyche's captor, about The Fox, and about Bardia that all turned out "wrong." But in doing so, she learned (by going through triumph and trial) that her errors in judgement were a revelation of herself. And I think this process is as (or more) important than if she made the right judgements in the first place. We all suffer the consequences of other's decisions whether right or wrong. And, of course, we all suffer the consequences of our own decisions. But, in the end, what is left is what we do with them. Who we are as a result of how we deal with the life that we are given and the choices that we make.

Thanks Emily...I probably wouldn't have picked this up without your suggestion. And I know that many of the people that I regard with respect consider this book highly. So, however lost I felt at times during its reading, it was definitely worth finishing and thinking about. Thanks for choosing it!

Reluctant Nomad said...

Emily....before the May discussion....I would love to know your answers to these questions. Please?

Fay said...

Thanks for choosing this book, but I'll admit, my puzzler is still puzzling about it. I loved the characters and became invested in them but I'm not sure who they represent in the real world. I wish I could be more like Orual, confident in my own opinions instead of so swayed by the views of others. I think I'm more like Psyche in that I'm totally believing and obedient. I'm sure I'll be safe in this if I always choose to believe in the Savior and follow his guide. I recently reread "As a Child" Henry B. Eyring's talk from the April Conference. To become meek and submissive as a child is a virtue. We don't need to be worried about being taken advantage of and stepped on if we submit to Him alone because He will never lead us astray.